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	<title>Comments on: The Cost Of&#160;Water</title>
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	<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/</link>
	<description>Just another Jeremy Bell Sites site</description>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bell</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=466#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Hi Nitram - I do have a rather detailed spreadsheet which I&#039;ve been using to track everything.  I&#039;ve got it in Google Docs and will be sharing it when the project is complete.  I had planned on sharing it along the way, but decided against it for a number of reasons...  ultimately, I didn&#039;t want to open up our decisions to public scrutiny.  I&#039;m sure people will have plenty of comments about how/where we spent our money, but I&#039;d rather those comments be made after we&#039;ve made the decisions ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nitram &#8211; I do have a rather detailed spreadsheet which I&#8217;ve been using to track everything.  I&#8217;ve got it in Google Docs and will be sharing it when the project is complete.  I had planned on sharing it along the way, but decided against it for a number of reasons&#8230;  ultimately, I didn&#8217;t want to open up our decisions to public scrutiny.  I&#8217;m sure people will have plenty of comments about how/where we spent our money, but I&#8217;d rather those comments be made after we&#8217;ve made the decisions <img src='http://360winnett.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nitram</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=466#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Exciting times Jeremy. Forgive me but I haven&#039;t explored all
of your website... Have you developed/kept a cost spreadsheet
on your project? During my last similar project, I kept an
Excel sheet where I listed items under categories such as
land and preparation, design, foundation, framing and roofing,
exterior windows and cladding, water supply and plumbing,
electric supply and electrical, heating/cooling, interior
walls and flooring, cabinets and furniture, appliances, final
landscaping. To the right of all of these items rows and
their 10 or so individual detailed sub-entries are columns as
follows:

Estimates (enter and revise as you learn and go - estimates
match up to actuals when you know the final value). This
isn&#039;t your original estimates - if you want to record
originals, simply save a copy of this spreadsheet every time
you revise it. Eestimares here are your best estimates of the
items to realize your dream as you learn or as you think
about them. Your architect&#039;s cost estimates usually serves as
a good high level start.

Actuals Paid/Committed to be Paid to date (committed is &quot;it&#039;s
alreay on the charge card or the subcontractor&#039;s invoice is
in this months bills to be paid pile&quot;).

Left to Pay (i.e. formula derived as latest Estimates less
Actuals Paid/Committed to be Paid to date - i.e. your best
guess on everything beyond all past payments and this month&#039;s
lates bills.

At the bottom is the Totals of the Estimated column, of the
Paid to Date column, and of the Total Left to Pay column.
Then one final tally which is Worst Case Left to Pay (which
is Left to Pay times some percentage for surprises (15%?).
This spreadsheet:
1) kept my frustration in control - at least I could review
where the money has gone so I could rationalize them as &quot;as
well as as I could do with what I knew or could control at
the time&quot; - it helps.
2) I could see if I had enough financial resources to buy
higher end flooring or appliances as I went.
3) Also, as the financial tension inevitably mounted, I could
see the end point along the way.
4) The other good news is that as you get close to the
end of the project, the Left to Pay and Worst Case Left to
Pay converge to zero, while your Actual Paid reflects what
you need to now enjoy, and what you have to recoup someday
when you sell this adventure some day. Yes, yes, I too said
I&#039;d be going out of my first project of 20 years ago in a
pine box (all I could afford at the end of it). That project
is now being prepared for sale (at a profit) just as I
finalize my third project, this time on budget.

Regards,
Nitram</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exciting times Jeremy. Forgive me but I haven&#8217;t explored all<br />
of your website&#8230; Have you developed/kept a cost spreadsheet<br />
on your project? During my last similar project, I kept an<br />
Excel sheet where I listed items under categories such as<br />
land and preparation, design, foundation, framing and roofing,<br />
exterior windows and cladding, water supply and plumbing,<br />
electric supply and electrical, heating/cooling, interior<br />
walls and flooring, cabinets and furniture, appliances, final<br />
landscaping. To the right of all of these items rows and<br />
their 10 or so individual detailed sub-entries are columns as<br />
follows:</p>
<p>Estimates (enter and revise as you learn and go &#8211; estimates<br />
match up to actuals when you know the final value). This<br />
isn&#8217;t your original estimates &#8211; if you want to record<br />
originals, simply save a copy of this spreadsheet every time<br />
you revise it. Eestimares here are your best estimates of the<br />
items to realize your dream as you learn or as you think<br />
about them. Your architect&#8217;s cost estimates usually serves as<br />
a good high level start.</p>
<p>Actuals Paid/Committed to be Paid to date (committed is &#8220;it&#8217;s<br />
alreay on the charge card or the subcontractor&#8217;s invoice is<br />
in this months bills to be paid pile&#8221;).</p>
<p>Left to Pay (i.e. formula derived as latest Estimates less<br />
Actuals Paid/Committed to be Paid to date &#8211; i.e. your best<br />
guess on everything beyond all past payments and this month&#8217;s<br />
lates bills.</p>
<p>At the bottom is the Totals of the Estimated column, of the<br />
Paid to Date column, and of the Total Left to Pay column.<br />
Then one final tally which is Worst Case Left to Pay (which<br />
is Left to Pay times some percentage for surprises (15%?).<br />
This spreadsheet:<br />
1) kept my frustration in control &#8211; at least I could review<br />
where the money has gone so I could rationalize them as &#8220;as<br />
well as as I could do with what I knew or could control at<br />
the time&#8221; &#8211; it helps.<br />
2) I could see if I had enough financial resources to buy<br />
higher end flooring or appliances as I went.<br />
3) Also, as the financial tension inevitably mounted, I could<br />
see the end point along the way.<br />
4) The other good news is that as you get close to the<br />
end of the project, the Left to Pay and Worst Case Left to<br />
Pay converge to zero, while your Actual Paid reflects what<br />
you need to now enjoy, and what you have to recoup someday<br />
when you sell this adventure some day. Yes, yes, I too said<br />
I&#8217;d be going out of my first project of 20 years ago in a<br />
pine box (all I could afford at the end of it). That project<br />
is now being prepared for sale (at a profit) just as I<br />
finalize my third project, this time on budget.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Nitram</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=466#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Two things:

1) I thought my framing was good too, and so did the contractor. Unfortunately it turned out not so. The walls and ceilings looked straight but werent&#039;t. I wish I had had in my contract that the walls had to be level to within 1/16&quot; of an inch like my friend did, and, at least had gone around with a level to make sure the walls were indeed straight. I&#039;d suggest you do this with the walls and ceilings if you already haven&#039;t before you pay the framers. I ended up having to hire another crew to shim out the walls and plane them down where required. About $4,000.

2) The drain and reconnection fees are high and so is curb cutting. It seems you already have a driveway there, but if you don&#039;t, I had to fork over almost $4,000 to have my driveway curb cut as I moved it to the other side of the lot. Again, no negotiation. The City just lets out the curb-cutting contract and you have to pay who they choose. We could have done it for 1/3rd the price to the City&#039;s specifications. The sad thing is they didn&#039;t even do it properly (no compaction of the sub-base for the new curb and some other things) so I had to call the City supervisor to get them to do it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things:</p>
<p>1) I thought my framing was good too, and so did the contractor. Unfortunately it turned out not so. The walls and ceilings looked straight but werent&#8217;t. I wish I had had in my contract that the walls had to be level to within 1/16&#8221; of an inch like my friend did, and, at least had gone around with a level to make sure the walls were indeed straight. I&#8217;d suggest you do this with the walls and ceilings if you already haven&#8217;t before you pay the framers. I ended up having to hire another crew to shim out the walls and plane them down where required. About $4,000.</p>
<p>2) The drain and reconnection fees are high and so is curb cutting. It seems you already have a driveway there, but if you don&#8217;t, I had to fork over almost $4,000 to have my driveway curb cut as I moved it to the other side of the lot. Again, no negotiation. The City just lets out the curb-cutting contract and you have to pay who they choose. We could have done it for 1/3rd the price to the City&#8217;s specifications. The sad thing is they didn&#8217;t even do it properly (no compaction of the sub-base for the new curb and some other things) so I had to call the City supervisor to get them to do it right.</p>
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		<title>By: howman</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>howman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=466#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I always find the opposite, the rooms seem bigger until the drywall goes up.  When you are inside and the person you are talking to is standing in a wall, or outside the room or you take pictures while standing in the wall and not in the room... it seems bigger.

A small trick I&#039;ve used before: Hit up a cardboard company for a stack of 4x8 sheets of corrugated and in 5 minutes you can staple them up in a room.  Gives a near perfect feeling of the room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always find the opposite, the rooms seem bigger until the drywall goes up.  When you are inside and the person you are talking to is standing in a wall, or outside the room or you take pictures while standing in the wall and not in the room&#8230; it seems bigger.</p>
<p>A small trick I&#8217;ve used before: Hit up a cardboard company for a stack of 4&#215;8 sheets of corrugated and in 5 minutes you can staple them up in a room.  Gives a near perfect feeling of the room.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff white</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/10/28/the-cost-of-water/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff white</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=466#comment-226</guid>
		<description>That is pretty pricey, but you&#039;re still saving over the initial cost of a septic and well. We&#039;ll likely be looking at $10-15,000 for a septic system and $5-10,000 for a well. Granted, we also don&#039;t get charged monthly for water or sewage, but the starting investment is still not completely unreasonable.

The framing is looking very cool. You must be getting super stoked. I find that until the drywall gets put up, I find the rooms feel smaller than I expected. Let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is pretty pricey, but you&#8217;re still saving over the initial cost of a septic and well. We&#8217;ll likely be looking at $10-15,000 for a septic system and $5-10,000 for a well. Granted, we also don&#8217;t get charged monthly for water or sewage, but the starting investment is still not completely unreasonable.</p>
<p>The framing is looking very cool. You must be getting super stoked. I find that until the drywall gets put up, I find the rooms feel smaller than I expected. Let me know.</p>
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