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	<title>Comments on: 10K in Rebates?  Not&#160;exactly.</title>
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	<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/</link>
	<description>Just another Jeremy Bell Sites site</description>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-202</guid>
		<description>The real problem is that you&#039;re not an architect, nor do you have a background in sustainability.  There is a reason why people spend 4-6 years completing master and doctorate level education programs on these subjects, its not just for fun.

Everyone wants their shot at fame these days (ie. your plan to write a book before you even know anything), and the appeal of the starchitect has many people fooled.

I find this frustrating because you risk mis-informing people, and as a media representative you have a highly influential position, but due to your inexperience you are not presenting all of the facts. This is not entirely your fault, but because you have taken on the high profile project, it becomes your responsibility. Building a new &quot;green house&quot; is not just a fun game, and you risk trivializing this.

Sustainability is a complex topic, its not some solar panel that you strap onto the roof at the end of a project - the word itself refers to a closed loop system that can sustain life without having to tax the land and the earth.

I appreciate what you&#039;re doing - trying to enter into the dialogue on &quot;green building&quot;, but the way you&#039;ve approached it is very risky. As soon as one begins advocating for the demolition of buildings its a slippery slope. I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve learned a lot while completing your house project and I hope that you work to better represent the holistic and fundamental aspects of sustainability (use less), rather than just the cosmetic - which is what is problematic with &quot;green washing&quot; happening today.

Furthermore, incredible things can be done with existing homes and buildings these days - there are entire architecture firms dedicated to the art of &quot;adaptive re-use&quot; where buildings/structures are retained and upgraded/added to/modified for a new use. This can also be done with homes, but you must find the right people who can think of creative solutions to your problem. Too many architects today (especially in Toronto) have become lazy and they find it easier to start with a clean slate and empty lot than to solve the existing problems of an older home.  In the greater scheme this is reflective of the North American throw-away culture, where we throw something out when it no longer serves its purpose. The reality is that we need to think for the long term and build in a way that can be modified later which ultimately uses less overall - this is what sustainability is really about.

Cheers,
Tyler Rozicki

Post Script: If one wants to build new, there are options in Toronto to use existing lots, I don&#039;t buy your argument that you had to demolish your house because of lack of space/no lots. Below are a few links exploring different approaches in Toronto.

Using small left over spaces on adjacent property (ie, driveways next to houses):
http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/Coxwell.html
http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1294-College.html
http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1292-College.html

Building in laneways (there is a whole book written on this subject by Bridgitte Shim and Donald Chung called &quot;Laneway Architecture and Urbanism in Toronto&quot;).
:
http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/ISarticle.asp?id=164891&amp;story_id=82091113137&amp;issue=06012005
If you want to make a real change (and I believe that you do) you can start using your media position to gather troops and lobby the city to make building in lane ways easier. This would be an incredible contribution to sustainability in the city. Then you can build *another* home in a laneway correcting all of the things that you learned while completing the first one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real problem is that you&#8217;re not an architect, nor do you have a background in sustainability.  There is a reason why people spend 4-6 years completing master and doctorate level education programs on these subjects, its not just for fun.</p>
<p>Everyone wants their shot at fame these days (ie. your plan to write a book before you even know anything), and the appeal of the starchitect has many people fooled.</p>
<p>I find this frustrating because you risk mis-informing people, and as a media representative you have a highly influential position, but due to your inexperience you are not presenting all of the facts. This is not entirely your fault, but because you have taken on the high profile project, it becomes your responsibility. Building a new &#8220;green house&#8221; is not just a fun game, and you risk trivializing this.</p>
<p>Sustainability is a complex topic, its not some solar panel that you strap onto the roof at the end of a project &#8211; the word itself refers to a closed loop system that can sustain life without having to tax the land and the earth.</p>
<p>I appreciate what you&#8217;re doing &#8211; trying to enter into the dialogue on &#8220;green building&#8221;, but the way you&#8217;ve approached it is very risky. As soon as one begins advocating for the demolition of buildings its a slippery slope. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve learned a lot while completing your house project and I hope that you work to better represent the holistic and fundamental aspects of sustainability (use less), rather than just the cosmetic &#8211; which is what is problematic with &#8220;green washing&#8221; happening today.</p>
<p>Furthermore, incredible things can be done with existing homes and buildings these days &#8211; there are entire architecture firms dedicated to the art of &#8220;adaptive re-use&#8221; where buildings/structures are retained and upgraded/added to/modified for a new use. This can also be done with homes, but you must find the right people who can think of creative solutions to your problem. Too many architects today (especially in Toronto) have become lazy and they find it easier to start with a clean slate and empty lot than to solve the existing problems of an older home.  In the greater scheme this is reflective of the North American throw-away culture, where we throw something out when it no longer serves its purpose. The reality is that we need to think for the long term and build in a way that can be modified later which ultimately uses less overall &#8211; this is what sustainability is really about.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Tyler Rozicki</p>
<p>Post Script: If one wants to build new, there are options in Toronto to use existing lots, I don&#8217;t buy your argument that you had to demolish your house because of lack of space/no lots. Below are a few links exploring different approaches in Toronto.</p>
<p>Using small left over spaces on adjacent property (ie, driveways next to houses):<br />
<a href="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/Coxwell.html" title="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/Coxwell.html" target="_blank">http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/Coxwell.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1294-College.html" title="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1294-College.html" target="_blank">http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1294-College.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1292-College.html" title="http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1292-College.html" target="_blank">http://www.spacesbyrohan.com/1292-College.html</a></p>
<p>Building in laneways (there is a whole book written on this subject by Bridgitte Shim and Donald Chung called &#8220;Laneway Architecture and Urbanism in Toronto&#8221;).<br />
:<br />
<a href="http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/ISarticle.asp?id=164891&#038;story_id=82091113137&#038;issue=06012005" title="http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/ISarticle.asp?id=164891&#038;story_id=82091113137&#038;issue=06012005" target="_blank">http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/ISarticle.asp?id=164891&#038;story_id=82091113137&#038;issue=06012005</a><br />
If you want to make a real change (and I believe that you do) you can start using your media position to gather troops and lobby the city to make building in lane ways easier. This would be an incredible contribution to sustainability in the city. Then you can build <strong>another</strong> home in a laneway correcting all of the things that you learned while completing the first one!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bell</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Tyler - yes, we considered keeping the existing foundation and a few walls before we decided to tear everything down and start over.  There were a number of reasons why we decided to start anew, some were aesthetic, some were structural, some were practical.

At no point have I ever said that our primary goal was to build the greenest house possible.  On the contrary, the goal was to build a LARGER home.  But instead, we decided to build something smaller than anticipated and we wanted to build it as green as possible.

And I&#039;m not sure what city you&#039;re referring to, but Toronto doesn&#039;t have &quot;plenty of empty lots&quot; to build on.  You&#039;re delusional.  They *DO NOT* exist.

Here&#039;s a little something I wrote in the Globe and Mail a few months back:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081031.WINNETT31/TPStory/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler &#8211; yes, we considered keeping the existing foundation and a few walls before we decided to tear everything down and start over.  There were a number of reasons why we decided to start anew, some were aesthetic, some were structural, some were practical.</p>
<p>At no point have I ever said that our primary goal was to build the greenest house possible.  On the contrary, the goal was to build a LARGER home.  But instead, we decided to build something smaller than anticipated and we wanted to build it as green as possible.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not sure what city you&#8217;re referring to, but Toronto doesn&#8217;t have &#8220;plenty of empty lots&#8221; to build on.  You&#8217;re delusional.  They <strong>DO NOT</strong> exist.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a little something I wrote in the Globe and Mail a few months back:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081031.WINNETT31/TPStory/" title="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081031.WINNETT31/TPStory/" target="_blank">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081031.WINNETT31/TPStory/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Of course you don&#039;t get the money if you tear the whole house down.  Its called a home energy &quot;retrofit&quot; program, not a &quot;new green home incentive&quot;.

Have you encountered the term &quot;embodied energy&quot; before?  I&#039;ll assume you havent based on decisions you&#039;ve made; It is obscenely wasteful to knock down an existing home unless its beyond repair - even if you really like the lot and neighbourhood - because of the energy that was required to make the materials used in the construction of the home. Even an old energy leaking building is better off for the environment than throwing all of those resources away.  You should not be rewarded for this wasteful act with retrofit incentive money.

There are plenty of empty lots in the city if you want to build a new home, no need to go and tear down a perfectly good one just to suit your desires. How very selfish.

This is &quot;greenwashing&quot; at its worst - no wonder people are so pissed off about people touting LEED and the rest of it just for show - its people like you who give it a bad name.

Shame on you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you don&#8217;t get the money if you tear the whole house down.  Its called a home energy &#8220;retrofit&#8221; program, not a &#8220;new green home incentive&#8221;.</p>
<p>Have you encountered the term &#8220;embodied energy&#8221; before?  I&#8217;ll assume you havent based on decisions you&#8217;ve made; It is obscenely wasteful to knock down an existing home unless its beyond repair &#8211; even if you really like the lot and neighbourhood &#8211; because of the energy that was required to make the materials used in the construction of the home. Even an old energy leaking building is better off for the environment than throwing all of those resources away.  You should not be rewarded for this wasteful act with retrofit incentive money.</p>
<p>There are plenty of empty lots in the city if you want to build a new home, no need to go and tear down a perfectly good one just to suit your desires. How very selfish.</p>
<p>This is &#8220;greenwashing&#8221; at its worst &#8211; no wonder people are so pissed off about people touting LEED and the rest of it just for show &#8211; its people like you who give it a bad name.</p>
<p>Shame on you.</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent Clement</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent Clement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-199</guid>
		<description>Dan: One reason why there is a blurry line between renovation and new home is related to dealing with fire and weather damage and how the Building Code is applied. If enough of the house remains, it qualifies as a renovation and you don&#039;t necessarily have to satisfy the current building code regulation. There are retro provisions that kick in.

I have to disagree with your belief that what you are doing is a renovation and qualifies for some rebate. The moment you completely demolish your home, you no longer owned a home. You own a lot with a big hole. You can&#039;t &#039;retrofit&#039; a new home.

I don&#039;t disagree that there should be a program for people like you who go beyond current regulations/standards, but the current rebate program was never meant for new construction. You knew that when you were originally sceptical about being eligible.

Good luck with the project - and never ever trust a third-party about anything related to the government. Call the government directly and try to get something in writing be it paper or email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan: One reason why there is a blurry line between renovation and new home is related to dealing with fire and weather damage and how the Building Code is applied. If enough of the house remains, it qualifies as a renovation and you don&#8217;t necessarily have to satisfy the current building code regulation. There are retro provisions that kick in.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with your belief that what you are doing is a renovation and qualifies for some rebate. The moment you completely demolish your home, you no longer owned a home. You own a lot with a big hole. You can&#8217;t &#8216;retrofit&#8217; a new home.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree that there should be a program for people like you who go beyond current regulations/standards, but the current rebate program was never meant for new construction. You knew that when you were originally sceptical about being eligible.</p>
<p>Good luck with the project &#8211; and never ever trust a third-party about anything related to the government. Call the government directly and try to get something in writing be it paper or email.</p>
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		<title>By: Elena Prigoda</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena Prigoda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-198</guid>
		<description>I would talk to someone in the gov&#039;t, your MPP or something, even if you&#039;re not &quot;eligible&quot;. Maybe the criteria need to be changed?  If the gov&#039;t is pushing people to make these changes they should be as inclusive as possible, and your going the extra mile should be rewarded, not penalized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would talk to someone in the gov&#8217;t, your MPP or something, even if you&#8217;re not &#8220;eligible&#8221;. Maybe the criteria need to be changed?  If the gov&#8217;t is pushing people to make these changes they should be as inclusive as possible, and your going the extra mile should be rewarded, not penalized.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebates for going green : Building the White House</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebates for going green : Building the White House</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-197</guid>
		<description>[...] Jeremy at 360 Winnett found out, the rebates program generally favour retrofits and aren&#8217;t generally well informed. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jeremy at 360 Winnett found out, the rebates program generally favour retrofits and aren&#8217;t generally well informed. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bell</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-196</guid>
		<description>Hey Dan - we hadn&#039;t included an area for solar space heating... at least not with something like the Solarheat unit that Your Solar Home sells.  However, there&#039;s absolutely no way we could fit those on the South side of the house!  We&#039;re at the absolute minimum distance we can be from our neighbour, and adding even an inch would require a pretty significant change to our plans.  It seems somewhat trivial, but we&#039;ve already run into a few small problems with the building inspector because of proximity to our neighbor!

I definitely love the idea of these... but unfortunately we won&#039;t be able to use them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan &#8211; we hadn&#8217;t included an area for solar space heating&#8230; at least not with something like the Solarheat unit that Your Solar Home sells.  However, there&#8217;s absolutely no way we could fit those on the South side of the house!  We&#8217;re at the absolute minimum distance we can be from our neighbour, and adding even an inch would require a pretty significant change to our plans.  It seems somewhat trivial, but we&#8217;ve already run into a few small problems with the building inspector because of proximity to our neighbor!</p>
<p>I definitely love the idea of these&#8230; but unfortunately we won&#8217;t be able to use them</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-195</guid>
		<description>OH, forgot ... sorry.

Are you, Jeremy, including on the south wall a planned area
for solar space heating? I am looking at this from Your Solar
Home out of Vaughan. It looks very intersting. For us, we
would need to install on the outside of our existing south
facing brick wall but if your walls are not yet built you
could I would think arrange the brickwork such that these could
be installed so the outside is flush with the outside of the
brick.

Dan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OH, forgot &#8230; sorry.</p>
<p>Are you, Jeremy, including on the south wall a planned area<br />
for solar space heating? I am looking at this from Your Solar<br />
Home out of Vaughan. It looks very intersting. For us, we<br />
would need to install on the outside of our existing south<br />
facing brick wall but if your walls are not yet built you<br />
could I would think arrange the brickwork such that these could<br />
be installed so the outside is flush with the outside of the<br />
brick.</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-194</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeremy,

Yea, was meant for you. Sorry :-(

It does bit, however.

Dan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeremy,</p>
<p>Yea, was meant for you. Sorry <img src='http://360winnett.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It does bit, however.</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://360winnett.com/2008/09/04/10k-in-rebates-not-exactly/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.360winnett.com/?p=373#comment-193</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeremy,

I&#039;d fight it.  It&#039;s $10k that you clearly ought to get - it&#039;s clear you&#039;re meeting the spirit of the rebates, and as you say, going above and beyond.  I imagine this is one of those cases where someone in the civil service just needs to be &quot;enabled&quot; to give you the rebates, &#039;cause I&#039;m sure they want to; tell them the dirt below the house is shared between both the old version and the renovated version, and that it is structurally important, and my guess is you&#039;ll be on your way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeremy,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d fight it.  It&#8217;s $10k that you clearly ought to get &#8211; it&#8217;s clear you&#8217;re meeting the spirit of the rebates, and as you say, going above and beyond.  I imagine this is one of those cases where someone in the civil service just needs to be &#8220;enabled&#8221; to give you the rebates, &#8216;cause I&#8217;m sure they want to; tell them the dirt below the house is shared between both the old version and the renovated version, and that it is structurally important, and my guess is you&#8217;ll be on your way.</p>
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